Sunday, September 11, 2011

Isaiah 43:10 (10-12 explained)

Recently, I've had someone pose a question to me about Isaiah:43:10 where it reads:

"10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Some interpret this to mean that there is no one else in the GodHead or that the Godhead is not plural. Or that somehow this disqualifies the standard, Biblical teachings that indeed there IS a Godhead made up of God The Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost as explained in the Doctrine and Covenants.

(D&C 20:28, the Father and the Son have bodies of flesh and bone, the Holy Ghost is personage of spirit, D&C 130:22)

THIS may be a bit lengthy but it's food for good thought. At least you'll know why we believe what we do and that at least it's plausible based on these Bible Passages...

We believe in the Godhead, as taught in the Bible and other evidences as found in the Bible to support the belief. It is also important to read scriptures in context. They are, after all, more than just words written on pages that take on certain meanings as they are read properly.

Genesis 1:26-27, 2:22
26 ¶And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after our likeness: (Paraphrased...)

(If it was truly only one being up in heaven, then reading it like this with a few words changed is:
"And God said I will make man in my image and after MY likeness..."

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ch 3: ¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil... (paraphrased)

We claim that we are literally sons and daughters of God as if He and heavenly parents would have trillions of Spirit Children as we know that we are.
(See also Job 38:4-7, Hebrews 12:9 and is fairly clear on who the Spirit Children of God is and who the father could be too. Even more so than Romans 8:15-18)

Also in Hebrews 1:2, we learn that "Jesus Christ" was appointed as an "Heir of All Things"
The usage of the word "Heir" makes sense that the Father has handed him all rights and powers as an Heir would be. This same "Heir" relationship between Us and the Father is spoken of in Revelations 1:5-6, 30:19-21) So who handed the "Father" all things? Can this chain be as old as eons and eternities without end. Who knows yet. It's not our worry to know all things yet. Just to be faithful in a FEW things...

Isaiah was referring to the "Law" and that only THROUGH the One True God and not the other Gods which may have been formed both in the minds or by the hands of other men. The Bible talks about those also.

Exodus 20:
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(Again, Gods' that are formed by the hands or imaginations of men.)

and also how it agrees with Joshua 24:15 were we ALSO see...
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Before the God of Israel manifested himself again to a prophet, Moses, he YET existed as also the God of Adam, of Enoch, Noah, Abraham and so forth, are we on the same page still?

We do not interpret Isaiah 43:10 as to contradiction to Genesis or Exodus or Joshua or EVEN itself if not read in its entirety. Isaiah goes on to say, speaking for the Lord Jehovah, who we know to be Jesus Christ, the member of the Godhead mentioned in the Old Testament:

11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.

So we know that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between man and the father and only in and through him can mankind be saved and return to the presence of the Father...

As Jesus Said himself, we return home to that God who gave us life...

Jesus also is talking to the Father as if he were a different person than himself...
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. - John 17:21 - and later mentions this, just to clarify, that he and the Father are two distinct beings, as he says to Mary,

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." John 20:17 -

It wasn't until the New Testament came along where we learn that there are two other members of the Godhead not completely talked about in the Old Testament or not in much detail, anyhow.

(See Also Gen. 11:5–17; Ps. 110:1; Dan. 4:8; Dan. 5:14)

These things aren't HIDING... now you may interpret these verses differently than me but in the reading of them, surely you could see why we believe the Bible on this wise, correct?

Many people are only kept from the truth because the know not where to find it. Some are kept from the truth because of traditions or what others tell them the truth should be.
But don't take my word for it! Pray to learn for yourself the true nature of the Godhead and clarify what we are taught in the Bible. That's all I ask you to do, brother. (See James 1:5-6, 1 John 5:9)

The scriptures affirm that there is "One God" consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. A great debate in Christian history has been the nature of this oneness.
Main article: Godhead and the Trinity
Protestant critics do not like the fact that Latter-day Saints reject the nonbiblical Nicene Creed, which teaches a oneness of substance. Latter-day Saints believe that God is one, but accept the Biblical witness that this is a oneness of purpose, intent, mind, will, and love, into which believers are invited to participate (see John 17:22-23). Thus, it is proper to speak of "God" in a singular sense, but Latter-day Saints also recognize that there is more than one divine person—for example, the Father and the Son.
This is not a contradiction; it merely demonstrates that the Latter-day Saints do not accept Nicene trinitarianism.


Joseph Balaich said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joseph Balaich said...

As plain as the scriptures are regarding the Godhead, only the Holy Ghost will testify of it's truth and the mortal being chooses whether to accept and act accordingly to the truth that is presented to him or herself, or to deny the truth that is presented.

Taryn said...

Thank you for this blog... I went searching for references for this scripture tonight and Google sent me to you. Thank you for Sharing your knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Andrew James said...

Hey! I came across you're blog and wanted to share some thoughts. Please read this post and let me know what you think. If you look at Isaiah 43:10 and Isaiah 44:6-8 6 "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."
Isaiah 45:22 "22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Mark2:5-7 "5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?"

This is what historical Christianity teaches. Here are some thoughts from C.S. Lewis on the trinity from his book Mere Christianity. Let me know what you think.

You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two-dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three-dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways – in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already. (Harper Collins version, p161-162)

I hope this is helpful in understanding the perspective of Christians on the nature of God. Let me know what you think.

TheLdsLife said...

Well your thoughts are lengthy but they may be yours, in fact, if it is not simply what a pastor or what someone else has said to you. The deification of man is NOT a contemporary idea. It was held by some and thought of by many of the early saints; members of the early Church or just beginning the Christian Era from 100AD to about 300 AD - Feel free to peruse the evidences. I appreciate your readership and interest on the subject at hand. I hope this helps.